Microsoft takes down Chinese blogger (my opinions on that)
OK, this one is depressing to me. It’s one thing to pull a list of words out of blogs using an algorithm. It’s another thing to become an agent of a government and censor an entire blogger’s work. Yes, I know the consequences. Yes, there are thousands of jobs at stake. Billions of dollars. But, the behavior of my company in this instance is not right.
Rebecca MacKinnon has the details in a post titled Microsoft takes down a Chinese blogger.
Why is this so important to me? Well, you ignore the voices of individual people at your peril. And, I’ve been raised by people who taught me the value of standing up for the little guy. My mom grew up in Germany. Her mom stood up to the Nazis (and got a lot of scorn from family and friends for doing so).
I do believe in a slippery slope. If they come after you today, maybe they’ll come after me tomorrow. Gotta stop this kind of stuff while we’re still talking about you.
Oh, and to: Zhao Jing, aka Michael Anti I’d like to offer you a guest blog here on my blog. I won’t censor you and you can write whatever you’d like.
Guys over at MSN: sorry, I don’t agree with your being used as a state-run thug.
This whole post has a couple of disclaimers. 1) I am assuming all the facts are as Rebecca has presented them. She’s a former CNN reporter and I trust her a lot, but there might be more to the story than is being told — I’m going to try to find out. 2) These are my own opinions, obviously.
I’m copying this post to Christopher Payne, corporate Vice President over on MSN and will try to get his point of view on this.
Update: someone over on MSN Spaces just wrote me and said he hadn’t heard of this and that he’s raising this up the management chain too. I’ll report more as I hear more. he told me that Steve Liffick is the VP in charge of MSN Spaces and that he reports to Blake Irving. I’ve sent email to both of those guys on this issue.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:18 am
Damn right.
We should have absolutely no part in censoring political voices.
MSN folks- you’re spineless cowards. When it comes to morals, you have none. You should be banished to China.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:25 am
Heh. Good news: I agree with you. Both on the issue (which isn’t the first time) and on the way you raise it.
Your first caveat, your use of the words “depressing” and “sorry,” your polite approach of Christopher Payne… All good things.
It’s a change from the “They should be fired!” tone of voice (and that’s a Good Thing).
Regards.
Marc Snyder
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:28 am
Hats down to you sir, Robert you have just entered my list of hero’s.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:36 am
[...] Robert Scoble has a critical (important and challenging) post about MSN apparent malfeasance. Microsoft joining Google in becoming agents of the Chinese police. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:49 am
You work for a corporation. You are not an individual at work.
Besides, just go fix the situation instead of blogging about it.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:55 am
Shame on you, Bill Gates!
What does the head-geek-in-charge think he’s doing? Censoring Chinese bloggers just like communist China does? What goes on here?
Microsoft’s MSN Spaces is censoring bloggers. American blogger Rebecca MacKinnon has the scoop:
On December 16…
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:56 am
[...] I’m with Scoble on this one: it’s not right for MSN to be an accomplice in censoring bloggers that the Chinese government feels are politically incorrect. Here’s the original article about this breaking story, from Rebecca MacKinnon’s blog this morning. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:59 am
How would you recommend he “just go fix the situation” if not by blogging about it? It would be nice if Robert could call a quick meeting of senior management and get to the bottom of this and change the policy, but I don’t think that’s within the scope of his job.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:01 am
Well done, Scoble! If Microsoft gives you any guff, remind them that this is exactly why companies need to have bloggers.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:12 am
Take action. I wrote MSN and told them I have chosen to avoid all MSN content, as I would rather pay for content than to receive it free with censorship.
If blog providers really want to stick it to MSN and Google, they would advertise their blog hosting as censorship free. I would pay a few dollars a month to have a blog w/o censorship.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:15 am
I absolutely agree with everything that’s been said on this. However, I would just like to throw out the opposing point of view - that MSN is duty bound to reflect the laws of the land it operates in. How would you like it if a corporation declared itself above the law?
In this case, though, I don’t think that defence is strong enough. (I want to make that clear - just playing Devil’s advocate somewhat.)
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:17 am
Well done Scobles.. “Now, It is VERY important to note that the inaccessible blog was moved or removed at the server level and that the blog remains inaccessible from the United States as well as from China. This means that the action was taken NOT by Chinese authorities responsible for filtering and censoring the internet for Chinese viewers, but by MSN staff at the level of the MSN servers” -
This appears to bevested interests in terms of Microsoft !!! Why ????
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:20 am
This is going to be an interesting situation to watch. Dealing with the Chinese government is certainly no fun and since Microsoft is expanding and looking to expand so much in China, they have to meet the government’s demands.
So, who will Microsoft side with? The Chinese government or the swarming bloggers? At this time, I’m betting on the Chinese government. Bloggers whining isn’t enough. If the mainstream media makes this individual case into international news (a la Terri Shiavo, Elian Gonzalez, etc.) and if because of that politicians get involved, I can see Microsoft fighting the Chinese government.
And I don’t consider restoring this one guy’s blog fighting the Chinese government either. That wouldn’t stop their rampant censorship. As Rebecca said, this was Microsoft that did this. I’m betting it was somebody with a title like Censorship Specialist II that pulled the blog of his own free will, not a direct order from the government, but I could be wrong.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:21 am
Scoble this seems like a double-edged sword…I mean I understand why this shouldn’t be the case in the ideal world…but sadly this is not the ideal world…
you should absolutely hate Chinese laws for allowing this…BUT if you were running a business in that country: what would you do?
the utopian view would be to shut down MSN Spaces there over free-speech issues…or shut down all your services over such a issue…BUT then you’d be ignoring almost a billion customers…
I’d try to find a middle ground…i.e. ask them to filter such things themselves and not put it on the service provider (like Microsoft)…
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:24 am
Worth noting that MSN Space sites are often “unavailable” and this is generally more an issue of service quality rather than censorship.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:26 am
[...] To his great credit, Robert Scoble - prominent Microsoft evangelist and blogger - has swiftly and unambiguously condemned MSN’s actions in this case. In his words, “Guys over at MSN: sorry, I don’t agree with your being used as a state-run thug.” Scoble has contacted the Microsoft exec in charge of MSN Spaces, and it will be interesting to see his response. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:36 am
It’s all very well for the self-appointed Freedom Fighters to scream but this post troubles me. This is what I SEE from this post and its associated comments, even if it is not entirely reflective of the conversation so far.
1. At Les Blogs 2.0 I listened to Rebecca and others talk in considerable detail about the complexities and difficulties in fathoming the Chinese authorities attitudes towards censorship. It made me realise there are no quick fixes and that comment about such things ‘we’ regard as abuse needs handling with extreme care. And in that I would defer to Rebecca any day of the week. She’s been there, she knows the terrain.
2. Given the issues Rebecca details and the political sensitivities in play, would it not have been better to find out from MSN what they have to say before blowing your foghorn Robert?
3. The focus now is not on the wider issue at hand but looks like deteriorating into yet another f**k MSFT fest - I’m sure that’s not Robert had in mind at all. It takes away from the central arguments.
4. I’d love nothing more than to see everyone having the kind of voice Robert espouses. But there are times when diplomacy matters and where remaining tight lipped - if only to establish the facts - is more appropriate than what seems to me at least, to be something of a knee jerk reaction on Robert’s part.
5. Just how would giving Zhao Jing space on Robert’s site make any difference? If anything, I can imagine it ticking off Chinese officials even more than Zhao’s current activities.
Having said that, if MSN is acting as some sort of unofficial censor then the circumstances of those activities are worthy of scrutiny. But only when MSN has had the opportunity to put its case forward.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:37 am
Couple of points
1.) Given that you work at Microsoft and know folks on the Spaces team, isn’t the intelligent thing to do to get the facts straight first before faning the flames of speculation and making inflammatory comments (e.g. “state run thug”)?
2.) Christopher Payne runs MSN Search, he is nowhere in the management hierarchy for MSN Spaces.
This post seriously makes you come off as a jack ass.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:07 am
Dare: fair enough. I will give any Microsoft employee or executive (including you, since you’re also a Microsoft employee, and work on the team in question) a guest blog here too to say what they think of me (or to give us facts that we don’t yet have in our possession).
Plus, my comments are open, and my trackbacks are open.
It may yet turn out that I’m wrong. In that case I’ll have egg on my face. I was willing to take that risk. So, what are the facts that I should have waited for?
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:08 am
What if it comes down to China pressuring Microsoft into doing taking down these blogs by threatening to ramp up piracy of Microsoft titles, delay Xbox components, or doing other things that could hurt Microsoft’s business? This is one problem I have with China. To do business there you have to play by their rules.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:10 am
I don’t care much for politics BUT I want to know how you were able to change your gosh darn WordPress theme??? Show me, show me now! ;-)
What good is a holiday site if it doesn’t reflect the gosh darn holiday season! LOL!!!
Pweez?
Thanks,
Aaron
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:11 am
holidays: Matt Mullenweg, founder of WordPress.com, did it for me. He is working on that feature so everyone else will be able to do it soon for themselves.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:12 am
[...] Interestingly, I came across this from a blog posting by one of Microsoft’s own, the one and only Scoble. Tags: Microsoft | Censorship | China [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:17 am
Excellent, when this happens all is well. I’m very excited thankyou! :)
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:22 am
Very interesting to see how this plays out.
My blog seems to be censored in China - or at least friends report they can’t get to it from mainland China (no probs in Hong Kong). Somehow I don’t see myself as any threat, although I do blog on China occasionally (I’ve got a startup there).
You pretty much got to play by the country’s laws to play in the country - any country. When you consider laws you consider unethical, you’ve got a dilemma.
Based on the evidence available right now, I strongly agree with you Robert!
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:25 am
your mum in Germany growing up? which part? I am in Germany!
By the way: congrats on standing up and defending Chinese blogger. Please note that Yahoo has given IP address and access data of a guy in China and because of Yahoo, he was jailed by Chinese government! And guess what, Russell bastard Beattie (employee of Yahoo) has not commented on it at all! You comment on similar issue. I admire your courage.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:26 am
Comic: she grew up by the Swiss border. I have relatives all over Southern Germany.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:29 am
Is anyone really surprised? No, I’m not the cynic who believes MS is evil. But there are some real hazards to doing intellectual property business in China. I mean, come on! Don’t tell me this isn’t a scenario that MS didn’t expect, in one form or another. How does MS maintain its integrity in a situation like this? First, they need to (on an internal basis) own up to the fact that they made a deal with the devil (so to speak). Second, they comprehensive strategy for dealing with pressures from the Chinese government in a way that doesn’t compromise the core values of the company. This means being politically savvy, and understanding the difference between passive and active cooperation. If MS didn’t do this when they expanded their business in Asia, then they’ve done the equivalent of walking into a minefield, blindfolded.
I’m hoping MS still has an idea of the bigger picture here.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:30 am
Call me crazy but I think Scoble should have waited for a MS response to the allegations before going to press with this story.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:38 am
[...] read more | digg story [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:45 am
Daniel: you’re not the only one who believes that (see Dare’s comment). I hear that feedback. The last word hasn’t been written on this issue yet. That’s one thing about blogs. The picture might start blurry, but it gets clearer over time as more and more people add their views in, and as more and more facts get reported.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:50 am
This is the ugly side of globalization. I mean, I essentially agree that MSN Spaces should not have taken the blog down nor should they cooperate in any censorship. OTOH, if they (or Yahoo or Google or IBM, other companies who have been in similar situations) don’t cooperate and are kept out of China for it, the Chinese tech market will still evolve and perhaps be spurred to develop native competitors ot MYGI. In the long run they may do just that anyway but in the long run we are all dead too. I believe this is a prime example of a Hobson’s Choice…
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:50 am
Dare:Not sure where your coming from. This is a geninue voice that needs to play the corporate Speech line. Why should it be termed as “jackass post” ??
remember ?? I Fail At Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness posting that was a rant about yourself which made you sound like a jackass.. IMHO !! yeah happy new year too Dare :)-
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:53 am
ok heres the link for the Dare’s - “I fail at life…”
http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=154585dd-a5a4-4cd3-96b7-ff3a66a2b101
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:54 am
[...] Robert Scoble ha escrito un post muy, muy serio sobre la censura que al parecer ha sufrido un blogero chino por parte de MSN. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pm
Steven: really? Should we allow child pornography through then?
How about spam?
See, the problem with this issue is there are local laws that we need to comply with. It’s just that the local laws there aren’t ones we understand or agree with.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:07 pm
I think any sort of censorship on any medium is unacceptable. Just because a technology gives one the ability to censor, does not mean that one should. The only reason censorship exists is to give off an image of power and scare people into believing or behaving a certain way. I know this is blatant self-promotion, but I recently started a website dedicated to free speech - http://liberdictus.com. Those of you here from digg.com will know the general idea behind it: anyone can submit articles which remain in a queue until they get a certain number of votes. The biggest difference, though, is that these articles are written by users, not just links to articles written by others. I really hope that it becomes a platform for true free speech. It is completely uncensored, and accepts content no matter the content.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:11 pm
Gotta play by their rules, gotta play by their rules. Playing by their rules is how we ended up China as both a predator consumer *and* a predatory supplier. Goodness knows, there’s very little in that country that counts as communism outside of using the word, but what was that about “selling us the rope we need to hang them”?
Right now, our people are giving in because it’s inconvenient to raise a fuss.
Here’s what i think: the individuals in China who run these entities have the resources and the desire to make money under any set of rules. Why not inconvenience them for a change. I think they’ll discover that they want the money more than they want to erode someone else’s freedom on behalf of the authorities. They’ve been exploiting our greed, let’s exploit there’s.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:42 pm
While I don’t agree with what happen you have to realize that freedom of speech does not apply here. The blog is owned and operated by MSN. If they don’t like what you wrote they can remove it. If you want your freedom of speech pay for your own web space.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:42 pm
Will “Tibet Independence” soon be censored by MSN in the USA I am sure this will get them a few extra pieces of Chinese silver.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Does anyone have the e-mail addresses for Steve Liffick and Blake Irving at MS/MSN? I’m not planning to flame them or anything, I’d just like to follow up on this further.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:53 pm
[...] Now there is a catchy title that will get me some hits but seriously now, Microsoft is now supporting China’s anti-free speech laws by censoring the entire blog of a Chinese man. That, in my humble opinion, is totally uncool. It is so uncool in fact that even Microsoft employees are upset about it. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Great! MS did what most the chinese people want. Is there anyone really care about China?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:58 pm
michael, send me email and I’ll put you in touch with them.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:04 pm
[...] Scoble [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Aye. If this were a petition, this would be my signature, in support.
Thanks for spreading the word, Robert.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:30 pm
[...] Rebecca MacKinnon, Dave Weinberger and Robert Scoble provide a great public service today. MacKinnon first and most importantly with her post on Michael Anti (Zhao Jing), and Weinberger and Scoble with their follow posts to bring the issue more public attention (I saw it first on Weinberger this morning, and then again on scoble through memeorandum, leading ultimately to MacKinnon). They are evidence of how blogs can actually be good and useful and important (I’ve been a skeptic in the past and posts about important issues, written with authority and passion, like these three cause me to revisit that skepticism). [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:31 pm
If this guy really doesn’t want to be sensored then he needs to go pay a hosting provider to host his own website. Then he can blog about what ever he wants. I host my blog on my own website because I know I can trust myself to not victimize myself with political concerns.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pm
[...] read more | digg story [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:36 pm
[...] Scoble gives his view on Microsoft’s decision to censor a Chinese blogger, “the behavior of my company in this instance is not right”. It’ll be interesting to see how this story pans out. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:37 pm
MS: Evil.
—* Bill
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:39 pm
[...] Read Rebecca’s post and Scoble’s post. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:41 pm
To agree with brave Scoble is noble but scarcely revealing:
1) I vaguely remember having to accept the msn.spaces “MSN Website Terms of Use and Notices”, so legally, MSN had all the rights to do what they did.
2) When it comes to Business in/with China politics are ALWAYS involved. It would be just [bold]naive[un-bold] to believe people would be allowed “free speech” or using the internet in ways the Chinese Government does not allow.
3) So as noble it is to be “against” the policies of MSN in this case, it is ignorant not to see that western/global companies always choose “profit” and “business” over “moral” and “ethics”.
We all know it, and - working for them or paying them - we quietly accept them to be the way they are. That certainly does not mean it is right.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Um, Epigonic, you say I don’t work in the same division as MSN. That isn’t true. We’re in the same division now.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:53 pm
It will be interesting to see whether Scoble will succeed in creating a new positive good-employee stereotype and leading Microsoft employees and potential hires uncomfortable with the currently accepted Microsoft good-employee stereotypes to a place where they can be more comfortable with themselves, or if he’ll be slapped down.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pm
With globalization, businesses are adopting classroom politics: the class can only go as fast as the slowest student. The applies in the context of political restrictiveness. MS’s behaviour is ultimately bounded by the outliers like China. The question is whether corporations should take a moral-relativist approach and accept these boundaries, or overtly support human-rights organizations that aim to reduce the occurence of scenarios like Zhao Jing’s.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Shame, Shame, Shame, we know their name!
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Making a buck vs. changing the world.
Do you really doubt where Microsoft stands now?
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:02 pm
I’m not sure how I feel here. I just read through the MSN Spaces Code of Conduct again. It seems to quite clearly indicate that this type of censorship takes place and that by creating an MSN Spaces account, you agree to abide by those rules. How and by whom those rules are enforced is I suppose a different story and probably what I’d raise a bigger fuss about. Also, is the censorship uniform?
I’d tend to agree here that if you don’t want to be censored, you need to host your own blog on your own server. Just my .02
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:12 pm
[...] Robert Scoble: “Guys over at MSN: sorry, I don’t agree with your being used as a state-run thug.” Posted by Richie @ 5:12 pm Tags: Media 2.0, Microsoft [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:14 pm
Just my 2p…
(if this is what has happened, and if this is how it is and if this is the whole story then) I can understand why Microsoft did what they did, and I would probably do the same in their situation. It is not their job to impose a different set of rules on a country. Sure, I know they didn’t, its a free world and a US server, but at the end of the day, a Chinese guy started doing something which the Chinese authorities didn’t like, and they asked MSFT to do something for them. There’s a lot at stake here commercially (obviously) - an awful lot. But I also don’t think MSFT should be using its weight to “impose” democracy and free speech - after all, it isn’t what everyone wants (be that a good thing or not). Yes, it smells. But really, they were stuck between a rock and a hard place, and decided to choose a bit of bad low-level publicity versus potentially high-level publicity, law suits, even their software being banned in the country concerned.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:18 pm
I can’t work out whether this is post was run past MS bosses before it hit the ‘presses’. If not, I’m assuming it can be justified by ensuring MS gets a scandal-reducing ‘good cop’ story out of it? Scoble to the rescue! (Again.)
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Um, Scoble, quick correction to comment #54. I (epigonic) said nada about you being in the same or different division as MSN. Not really relevant to my post. Will be interesting to see how this plays out for your colleagues nevertheless.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Is Microsoft against freedom of speech?
I noticed over at Scoble’s blog that MSN has blocked access to the blog of a chinese guy. The details about this have been posted here. This is going to cause some issues for Microsoft.
As a company obviously Microsoft wants to do business in Chi…
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Greetings,
To allow the morals of the most-strict to judge what content can be seen by groups whose basic moral values are different is actually a form of moral ABSOLUTISM. It’s more akin to a pr0n site’s ISP kicking them off the net, because somewhere out there is an anti-pr0n user. It’s implicitly saying that there is a moral absolute, and it is the UNION of everything every influential group in the world thinks is bad.
Moral relativism instead suggests that it is China’s responsibility to block off content that is unappealing to it. Microsoft shouldn’t, because it may be appealing to someone else, and it would be wrong to deny that ’someone else’ access to it purely because China finds it unpleasant.
I’m going to make a SWAG that the blog was removed for activity (statements?) that would be criminal in the users home country. I believe that the criminality of data should only be considered in the context of the hosting country, and then requires a government action to remove, but that is understandably a utopian view (from my Usenet years), undistorted by the need to make money in environments where politics and business are so irrevocably intertwingled.
– Morgan Schweers, CyberFOX!
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:12 pm
[...] That I really respect Robert Scoble. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Well done, just too bad it’s another crisis, designed to take mind off the other crisis. Sleight of hand tricks. Back-channel the one most in immediate flames, cue up long-term problem, place on central burner, turn on high, divert attention. It’s Crisis Management PR 101.
Cynical? Hey, I know PR.
He already got burnt in another China mishap, not about to make same mistake twice. Least it learns. But you need mainstream media and political wailing to make this stick. Glad to have helped out. ;)
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Morgan and all the other moral relativsts: if you think that moral values are not absolute: what if the case had been about childporn or racism instead? There is a set of irreducible, culture-independent set of principles that are necessary for human society to exist.
The right for you not to be tortured/killed in cold blood is absolute. Also, do not confuse what is legal with what is moral. Hiding behind legalisms is for moral cowards with no spine.
Regarding this case: MS did the commercially-correct morally-wrong thing. Yahoo/Google bow to China too. Should organisations be amoral? Complex world with lots of grey…
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:40 pm
[...] Scoble is fired up and extending an invitation to Michael Anti to use his blog instead (Anti has since changed to a different third-party hosted blog service — why doesn’t this guy buy his own domain and host this himself?): OK, this one is depressing to me. It’s one thing to pull a list of words out of blogs using an algorithm. It’s another thing to become an agent of a government and censor an entire blogger’s work. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:46 pm
“It’s one thing to pull a list of words out of blogs using an algorithm.”
Bull, that was *still* enabling censorship, the tool of these butchers. You’re almost there with this post, well done, now how about taking it all the way and stating that MS should not perform ANY censorship on behalf of totalitarian states?
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:57 pm
The whole censorship argument aside for a moment … what I don’t understand here is if this Anti guy wanted more control, why didn’t he setup his own domain and his own hosting? Why does he go to a third party blog host in China that has a very restrictive TOS?
Bloggers need to stop crying censorship when they agree to a TOS in advance.
The fact that Anti ran back to his previous third party host tells me this guy isn’t looking at this very intelligently.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:00 pm
So where are we in terms of an MSN update?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:08 pm
Mao Tse Gates?
So I wonder what the man representing one-third of of the Times Persons of the Year has to say about political censorship of MSN Spaces blogs? As quoted by LaShawn Barber, Glenn Reynolds, Evan Coyne Maloney, and the Scobelizer, Rebecca MacKinnon expl…
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:41 pm
Dude, you practice censorship of a more heinous variety on Channel 9.
Get in touch with reality.
…and consider one of those protein diets.
I love you too!
xx00
shooby
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:01 pm
Dennis: I’ll have more to say on this issue after I hear back from the folks involved. This decision was made in China so it’ll take some time, maybe even a day or two. Not to mention lots of stakeholders are scattered all over the world at the moment due to CES and other events.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:15 pm
[...] Microsoft Geek Blogger » Microsoft takes down Chinese blogger (my opinions on that) Robert Scoble gives a Microsoft perspective on MSN Spaces blocking a Chinese dissident blogger (tags: China Microsoft) [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:31 pm
I never understand why people complain about companies everytime something like this happens. Will everybody complains quit buying products that originate from china because they support their policies. Probably not.
You guys get worked up over things once in a while, but never think through what your actions could cause too, but point at google, or yahoo or microsoft about something they did.
Personally, I think if there is really a need for freedom of speech in china, the chinese can fight for it, it is no my place to tell them what rights they need. I am sure a 1.2 billion people can figure out what they want…
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:31 pm
Microsoft Removes Chinese Blog
Rebecca MacKinnon writes:
Microsoft’s MSN Spaces continues to censor its Chinese language blogs, and has become more aggressive and thorough at censorship since I first checked out MSN’s censorship system last summer. On New Years Eve, MSN Space…
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:31 pm
This will be put on this weeks episode of Tech Talk for our current events section, keep up the good work.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:39 pm
What being honest is all about
Imagine saying this to your colleagues. Publicly. But, the behavior of my company in this instance
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:28 pm
[...] In fact, both Robert and several others covered this. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:11 pm
[...] A good reason to ignore this site By Dennis Howlett Regular readers know I believe this medium is great for creating valuable and profitable relationships. So when things go badly wrong (see comments #17, 72 and response 75) , everyone suffers. IMHO, that happened today. Robert Scoble, a Microsoft (MSFT) employee and key influencer of the technologies called out MSN in the following manner:"OK, this one is depressing to me. It’s one thing to pull a list of words out of blogs using an algorithm. It’s another thing to become an agent of a government and censor an entire blogger’s work. Yes, I know the consequences. Yes, there are thousands of jobs at stake. Billions of dollars. But, the behavior of my company in this instance is not right."By any standard, these are harsh words. For this sie, this is neither the time nor place to argue politics nor economics. AccMan Pro is not into that stuff. But it is into promoting best practice. I’ve met both Rebecca MacKinnon, the person whose words piqued Robert’s ire and Robert Scoble himself. I respect them both but in different ways. On this occasion I believe Robert has made a serious mis-step. While at Les Blogs 2.0 . I listened to Rebecca MacKinnon and recorded a Chinese national who explained the rudiments of the way Chinese people (not government) responds to Western views. I understood that even though this may seem hard, we do well to remember the words of Ayatollah Khomenei who said: "Islam is politics, all else is meaningless." Or something very similar. I am sure Robert means no harm. I am equally sure Robert wants the best for everyone. I am more than sure Robert is alive to the risks he takes. Why? I’ve met the man and I know I’m not a poor judge of character. Time of course will be my ultimate judge. But on this occasion, I think Robert is plain wrong and hurts those that are looking at this environment and thinking ‘Should I/shouldn’t I?Follow the links, see if this makes sense to you… Blogging issues, Compliance, msn censorship This entry is filed under Compliance, Blogging issues. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Leave a Reply [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:17 pm
[...] Of course, there’s always another side to the ledger in dealing with the Chinese government. Rebecca Mackinnon, a Research Fellow at the Havard Law School’s Berkman Center for Internet and Society, reports that Microsoft’s MSN apparently took down the blog of Zhao Jing who was doing more investigative reporting than was appreciated by the government. Microsoft’s Robert Scoble looks into the case, offers him blog space, and has an followup. Posted @ 10:20 pm. Filed under Alliances, Governmental Relations, Outsourcing, General Business, Offshoring [Permalink] [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:33 pm
[...] 1. You currently can not play with the themes though Robert Scoble from Microsoft tells me today that (when I asked him how he was aable to edit his theme): Matt Mullenweg, founder of WordPress.com, did it for me. He is working on that feature so everyone else will be able to do it soon for themselves. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:36 pm
[...] もう一つは、MSN が中国人ジャーナリスト Michael Anti の blog を削除したというニュースで、RConversation で取り上げられ、tech.memeorandum でもトップを飾り、Robert Scoble が MSNは間違ってる とするコメントを出してる 今回削除された blog は、中国政府からのブロックを受けておらず、MSN の自主的規制らしい こういうメディアの自主規制てのは、日本にも自粛っていう困った習慣があるけど、全くどうしたものかな [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:37 pm
Microsoft have been disgusting. As someone who has traveled around china for a few months, government oppression is very very very real there. That an american company should be complicit in helping the government is disgusting.
I fully support your dissent to your own company. Don’t feel afraid to raise your voice about this.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:09 pm
“As someone who has traveled around china for a few months….”
Ah! A real expert! If I had a nickel for everyone who’s been in China for a few months and understands everything….
—
Microsoft should not be aiding the Chinese government in this matter. I have hope but little confidence that scobleizer will be able to change MS policy.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:36 pm
[...] scoble’s update is interesting: Update: someone over on MSN Spaces just wrote me and said he hadn’t heard of this and that he’s raising this up the management chain too. I’ll report more as I hear more. he told me that Steve Liffick is the VP in charge of MSN Spaces and that he reports to Blake Irving. I’ve sent email to both of those guys on this issue. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:50 pm
I am more in west/middle Germany, so I don’t know well southern Germany. Please note also that Germans who stand up to nazis were sent to concentration camps and killed…
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:54 pm
[...] A Chinese journalist and blogger has had his blog removed by MSN Spaces, alleges former CNN journalist Rebecca McKinnon. Popular Microsoft employee and blogger Robert Scoble has taken a stand against MSN’s removal of the blog. It’s been put back up on blog site Blog-city, although it is blocked by Chinese ISPs. The blogger, “Michael Anti,” claims to be releasing an English version that, to the disappointment and scorn of commenters on the related shoutbox, currently only contains a not-quite-so-eloquent post. Added: Of course, there’s the obligatory MeFi link. Also I originally got this from BB and click-trail’d to the rest of the links. [...]
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:06 pm
From Rebecca McKinnon’s blog
“On December 16th I created a blog and attempted to make various posts with politically sensitive words. When I attempted to post entries with titles like “Tibet Independence” or “Falun Gong” (a banned religious group), I got an error message saying: “This item includes forbidden language. Please delete forbidden language from this item
…
This was on Friday December 16th. By Monday the 19th, the whole blog had been taken down, just like Anti’s was on Dec.31st, with an error message: “This space is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later.”
For the apologists above, no, you don’t need to be a criminal (Falun Gong isn’t criminal, just banned). You just need to use words that MSN spaces has banned!
“the blog remains inaccessible from the United States as well as from China. This means that the action was taken NOT by Chinese authorities responsible for filtering and censoring the internet for Chinese viewers, but by MSN staff at the level of the MSN servers.”
For those in favour of the censorship/talking about Terms of Service - I didn’t notice you supporting Sony with their outrageous terms of service.
@Scoble: Takes courage (for a change) to have posted what you did, I think you’ll find people will respect you for that, whatever the facts turn out to be.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:01 pm
The Fall Of The Beijing News
The rise of journalistic resistance UPDA
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:14 pm
Use your head for a second. The Chinese government is allowing foreign companies to do business there as long as they follow certain guidelines. One of these guidelines is to bow to govermental censorship when requested. They write the rules and if you want to play at all, you must obey. I doubt the msn people feel good about this.
What is a solution to this? The only one that I see is that the Chinese people themselves tear down this evil system. Are you suggesting that non-governmental organizations like Microsoft and Google become catalysts for mass political change? The sad fact is that this isn’t what businesses do. Maybe corporate expectations are changing, due to our decaying planet, but I doubt this will change soon enough.
This of course would be an excellent time for Apple to sponsor an underground democracy movement in China through proxied blogging. Hell, if you can fool the people into thinking that you actually give a shit about something more than turning a fast buck, then you have a chance of winning.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:34 pm
Chinese Censorship
January 4th, 2006 at 12:13 am
Thank you for this post. It bring new hope that people inside Microsoft will fight this censorship. And we shall also try to fight very hard in our western world for the signs of censorship here. There might not be the same kind of censorship, but the goal is the same - the people with power use power to shut down in people that potensially decrease their power.
I like to draw your attention to censorship in our western world - inside Myspace, one of the most popular social networks for teenagers. Last week before Christmas Myspace.com censored all mentioning of Youtube.com and all linking to youtube videoclips. See more information on my blog here:
http://samkoma.net/videoblog/?p=17
Myspace also shut down my myspace account for a while, I assume it was because I was critical of the censorship and the blogoshere was starting up heated discussion about this. My account was later reopened. Myspace seem to be eager to destroy all traces of this censorship and evidence that it ever took place. This is very interesting example of how powerful and invisible censorship in our western world can be and how important it is for activism not to be dependent upon the media channels you are targeting.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:26 am
访问墙外的安替Access to Anti
2006年我会重新出发，恢复http://anti.blog-city.com的博客更新，国内朋友可以用Rss软件订阅：http://feeds.feedburner.com/blo…
January 4th, 2006 at 12:42 am
[...] Lo cuentan Rebecca MacKinnon y Robert Scoble, quien intenta dilucidar si ha sido MSN Spaces o el gobierno chino el responsable del bloqueo del sitio de Anti: http://spaces.msn.com/members/mranti/, quien está escribiendo ahora en: http://anti.blog-city.com/2006.htm. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 2:04 am
Wonderful post.
The issue, S. Jorbs, is not so much Microsoft following the CCP’s rules. It is about Microsoft, an American company, on American soil, deleting blogs read all around the world because they have content that annoys the Chinese Communist Party. What will our world be like if American corporations, in their feverish pursuit of those 1.2 billion Chinese consumers, abandon all ethics and stoop to deeds hitherto unthinkable by an American company?
January 4th, 2006 at 2:08 am
[...] Den kjente Microsoft-ansatte Scobleizer, som også har en av verdens mest besøkte blogger, skriver i en kommentar at han er meget skuffet over hva som har skjedd og han har satt i gang press internt for å komme til bunns i saken. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 3:00 am
Hi Scobleizer, thanks for standing up and I do admire your courage.
A lot here have been said about doing business in China must follow the Chinese rules or practices. This certainly has its merit, however this is only the half truth. Why most American companies will not and can not bribe their ways out in China as their Chinese competitors normally do? Because there is something called ‘Foreign Corrupt Practices Act(FCPA)’. The dire financial & reputational consequences of breaching such a US law prevent most Americans from doing under-the-table tricks which are ubiquitous in China. Do American business suffer? I assume so. Why not a lot of people cry for this?
So the question is really at what price the Amercians, especailly the American government, will hold their moral high ground. Comparing with the billions of dollors the Americans (or at least half of the Americans) are willingly to shed to promote democracy in Middle-east, I do believe the financial consequences of Microsoft or Google or whoever who do not comply with Chinese blackmails will be just peanuts.
Certainly, from any single corporation’s point of view, especially for those with big stake in China, loss of revenue there is an immediate pain. This is why I think the American government should step in, establishing something similar to the FCPA, forbiding US companies from assisting foreign governments to curb any democratic initiatives.
Call me a dreamer at your will. As a Chinese who himself shed blood in Tiananmen square in 1989, I know how difficult it is for normal people to stand up and fight within. Anti is a courageous young man, he should be supported at any costs.
PS1: Talking about Chinese laws, it is in China’s constitution that people have freedom of speech, freedom of forming parties etc. The only notable lack of freedom from a legal point of view is that Chinese are not allowed to strike, which suits American MNCs handsomely.
PS2: I live in southern Germany, 2 miles from Swiss border, maybe not too far from your mom’s hometown :-)
January 4th, 2006 at 3:05 am
My best guess is that Microsoft censored the free blog because someone spoke to someone who spoke to someone.
It’s not as if the blogger in question is low profile and it’s not as if this is the first time someone deliberately blogged controversial items in a rhetorical fashion.
I’m more disappointed in Microsoft for being gullible enough to be used as a political tool.
95% of bloggers live in the free world and yet they fail to understand that their selected webtool of free speech is neither free nor theirs. Some bloggers are aware of the above and and play the game, and the people, accordingly.
January 4th, 2006 at 3:13 am
Google PC kerfuffle (and meta-sign)
In today’s IT Blogwatch, we look at the swirling rumors about Google’s PC and are heard to mutter, "I want that one." Not to mention a warning sign warning you not to hit your head on the warning sign…
If the CES rumor mill springs true, …
January 4th, 2006 at 3:43 am
Microsoft, censoring now uuummmmmm, what next are they going to take on the role of the American Government? One wonders, what the hell they’re playing at. If Microsoft, want play at censoring, then why don’t they start censoring porn site with young children. I know every one should have freedom of speech on the web, but when it come to showing child porn then that should be censored!
January 4th, 2006 at 3:47 am
Thanks for standing up and I, as a Chinese,do admire your courage.
January 4th, 2006 at 3:51 am
[...] Enkele dagen geleden besloot MSN echter om de weblog van Michael Anti te verwijderen. Een van de achterliggende redenen (volgens Roland Soong) was Anti’s steun voor zijn stakende collega’s bij de krant Beijing News. Verschillende Amerikaanse webloggers beschuldigen Microsoft van samenwerking met het Chinese regime om de vrijheid van meningsuiting te bestrijden. Een deprimerende beslissing, vind Microsoft Weblogger Robert Scoble (interview met DNR). OK, this one is depressing to me. It’s one thing to pull a list of words out of blogs using an algorithm. It’s another thing to become an agent of a government and censor an entire blogger’s work. Yes, I know the consequences. Yes, there are thousands of jobs at stake. Billions of dollars. But, the behavior of my company in this instance is not right. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 3:56 am
We all have to stand up together, some how we have to make the world we live in a better and free place for all manking no matter what collour or creed we are. We should not have to put up with the Bill Gate of this world.
January 4th, 2006 at 3:58 am
Well Said Kritisch……
January 4th, 2006 at 3:59 am
To lml As an Englishman I admire your strength, in what you are saying and standing for!!!
January 4th, 2006 at 4:35 am
[...] It appears that some US companies are willing to go one step further to help restrict information flowing into China — Microsoft techincal evangelist and blogger Robert Scoble, on his blog, has recently excoriated the hand that feeds him in a post entitled Microsoft takes down Chinese blogger (my opinions on that). It’s worth a read. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 4:40 am
[...] I originally heard that Microsoft had shut down a Chinese blogger at MSN spaces from Scoble. His response was pretty clear. OK, this one is depressing to me. It’s one thing to pull a list of words out of blogs using an algorithm. It’s another thing to become an agent of a government and censor an entire blogger’s work. Yes, I know the consequences. Yes, there are thousands of jobs at stake. Billions of dollars. But, the behavior of my company in this instance is not right. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 5:16 am
Time was when the CEO of any American company would openly denounce “Communism” in the normal course of doing business. Indeed, anti-communism was de rigeur in the business world and elsewhere. The idea of supporting a Communist regime in any way was looked on as unthinkably treasonous. Now that the “commies” are providing Wal-Mart and other corporations with cheap slave labor, I guess anti-communism is out of style, right?
Apropos of what you said above, my own grandparents ran for their fucking lives from Nazi Germany. My grandmother’s sister and her family didn’t make it.
I understand that according to the FBI, the greatest category of illegal immigrants to the USA is not Mexicans but Chinese. Did anyone stop to think about why people in that country would pay gangs of criminals called “snakeheads” to seal them into shipping containers with no windows, no toilets and no ventilation for a voyage across the Pacific which they might not even survive?
As for confronting your employer, Mr. Scoble, I know that’s easier said than done. Most people would not even do what you’ve done here.
January 4th, 2006 at 5:21 am
I’m here via BB, and given that one of the biggest struggles of the 21st century is likely to be the Freedom of the Internet vs. Oppressive States + Complicit Corporations, I’m very glad you’ve chosen to publicly take this position (thanks!)
I sincerely hope you continue to say things like this, and make sure your company knows what it should not be doing, who it should not be complying with just to keep profit rolling in.
China is only going to open itself to a free internet if it needs to. If Microsoft and other biggies comply instead of holding fast to values of freedom, there will be no need, and nothing will happen.
The Oppression For Profit folks at Yahoo! and Google should be taking notes.
January 4th, 2006 at 5:46 am
That’s Microsoft for you…
January 4th, 2006 at 6:33 am
I know Robert Scoble is angry about that, me too.
but do you know these statistics?
Illiteracy population in China is 8.507 million. 80 million contrymen who are got low level education.
I don’t know how much of them will listen to the high IQ clerisy and just do what they hear and never think it carefully. but I know that’s a very big number which can get the country to commotion, it will be bigger than the France commotion.
And is Mr.Anti is the delegate of Chinese?
ps. I am Chinese who are live in China, too.
January 4th, 2006 at 6:42 am
Dare, really, when has Robert ever let fact checking get in the way of his self-aggrandizement as “hero for the people”? I mean, this isn’t the first time he’s gone on the attack against fellow MSFT employees without checking the facts first. It’s always “post first, verify and apologize later, never let anything get in the way of having the biggest first post penis”.
Robert will of course, end up apologizing for the thugs comment, (which was completely out of line), and make another empty promise to be better about checking facts before posting.
Really, I think if it wasn’t part of their jobs to do so, I’ll guess that a lot of MS people would hesitate to talk to Robert, since he doesn’t care who he damages on his way to be first.
January 4th, 2006 at 6:57 am
John C. Welch, what is exactly the fact as you know? MSN Space shut off the whole blog of a well known Chinese political disident. How do you explain this? If Anti has broken any Chinese law, why he is still at large?
January 4th, 2006 at 8:18 am
postpostmodern: “The right for you not to be tortured/killed in cold blood is absolute.” While the world may currently recognize this as a basic human right, it’s a bit “out there” to suggest that this is “absolute.” I get fairly annoyed at moral relativism myself, but I’m perfectly aware that the morals that are culturally ingrained in me are just that… ingrained from my culture.
Are sharks immoral because they kill in cold blood? No, they are amoral with regard to the moral context that I use. If you are a shark, you have a much different set of moral values.
Likewise, were the members of the Donner Party immoral? Is it moral relativism to suggest that they did what was necessary to survive? Is it any less necessary for the Chinese gov’t to behave in a certain way to preserve itself? If they do not know any other way to survive but to continue along the same path they’ve been on for a generation, is it surprising that they would behave this way?
There are cultures that have no problems with selling children into prostitution for the family to survive. It’s easy for me to call them immoral, but I’m not the one staring at the possibility of the rest of my family starving to death in an impoverished nation and no opportunities to “pull myself up by my own bootstraps.”
Drawing morally lines in the sand is fun, but to suggest that there are culturally independent demarcations is a bit naive, don’t you think?
January 4th, 2006 at 9:02 am
Microsoft should be ashamed - an absolute farce - the people of China deserve better!
January 4th, 2006 at 9:38 am
[...] 记者安替位于MSN的Blog被删除，此前曾为微软设立中文敏感词过滤的微软员工Robert Scoble（亦是一名知名Blogger）曾任这是自己做过的最缺心眼的事。昨天，在其Blog上对安替MSN Space被删除事件作个人表态，对微软同仁说，sorry, I don’t agree with your being used as a state-run thug（抱歉，你们被用作了国家暴徒，对此我无法苟同）。并称愿意在自己的地盘上为安替提供机会发表其任何言论。 [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 11:01 am
Internet Censorship in China
Bloggers all over the world are up in arms over Microsoft’s alleged censorship of a popular Chinese language blog on their free and widely used MSN spaces website builder. Some blogs in China get blocked for mentioning certain highly specific keywords…
January 4th, 2006 at 11:52 am
Hey, evil empires stick together, and people are surprised?
Get real!
January 4th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
[...] It does the heart good to see Microsoft’s top blogger, Scoble, laying into part of the Microsoft empire. He’s having a big go at MSN Spaces for taking down a Chinese blogger (although he adds the rider that he does not know for sure that the reports are true). He says he likes to subvert his employer for the good, and so long as he does so, I entirely disagree with the view that he has outlived his usefulness at Microsoft. blogosphere microsoft scoble [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
I commend you on your challenging the bosses terrible actions!
Supporting a regime that thrives on propaganda, brutality, and violence to anyone who voices dissent is a serious black mark on your employers’ record.
While many blogs are simply an online diary that gives us the opportunity to whine about the ex husbands or how tiring our Xmas shopping was (mine included), it upsets me that people have had their very lives jeopardized simply for putting their thoughts online.
For shame, Bill!
January 4th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
[...] 2.) China and Microsoft As my to-do list grows, I’m getting sucked into this story. It started with Rebecca’s post. Then Scoble’s sincere response. Then his sucka response. Then Forbes. Now it’s everywhere. Censorship: it’s the one thing that brings liberal and conservative bloggers together with fists in the air. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
[...] 而 Robert Scoble 在 這篇 也提出了看法, 並採取行動. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Robert,
when you get a chance you need to read this:
http://www.cia.gov/nic/NIC_2020_project.html
and you also want to glance at this:
http://weblog.jrc.cec.eu.int/comments/wallstrom/Weblog/corporate_responsibility
and I guess you’ve followed this:
http://weblogs.asp.net/edaniel/archive/2006/01/05/434548.aspx
It’s not easy, it’s complex - what’s easy is what the business needs to do - what is complex is making the decision to do what is in the interest of business over other issues - where does the capitalist’s conscience lie? I recently read USA gave more aid to Uzbekistan than the entire African continent (http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=2640)- I guess it’s a good job Bill’s doing his bit for HIV in Africa.
January 4th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
MSN Space是大陸的嗎?
怪了, M$應該是美國公司, 難道他想賺大陸的錢想瘋了.
所以要去親大陸政府的屁股嗎? 然後過濾不當言論.
雖然我覺得現在再回頭仔細看MSN Space的term of service,
應該會發現有一些模棱兩可的部份,…
January 5th, 2006 at 6:10 am
[...] Scobelizer has a link to this post by Rebecca MacKinnon: Microsoft’s MSN Spaces continues to censor its Chinese language blogs, and has become more aggressive and thorough at censorship since I first checked out MSN’s censorship system last summer. On New Years Eve, MSN Spaces took down the popular blog written by Zhao Jing, aka Michael Anti.[…] Note, his blog was TAKEN DOWN by MSN people. Not blocked by the Chinese government. [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 6:38 am
[...] Connect that with this, from Scobleizer: [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 6:45 am
Don’t wanna look like a troll but I would love to have some of your comments on this:
(Word of caution: Newbie promoting self-blog)
The Anti-Microsoft War
January 5th, 2006 at 8:16 am
[...] Scobleizer - Microsoft Geek Blogger » Microsoft takes down Chinese blogger (my opinions on that) (tags: Chinese blogger) [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 8:31 am
[...] So is Microsoft little more than a state-run thug? These are strong words indeed but they don’t come from me but from the mouth of Microsoft’s own blogger Robert Scoble over MSN’s decision to take down a blog by Chinese journalist Zhao Jing, from its MSN Spaces portal. [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 10:35 am
[...] Η πρώην συντάκτρια του CNN Rebecca McKinnon έχει την ιστορία αναλυτικά στο blog της. O Robert Scobble (κορυφαίος blogger της Microsoft) εξέφρασε τη διαφωνία του για την πράξη της εταιρείας στην οποία εργάζεται, λέγοντας “the behavior of my company in this instance is not right.”. [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 11:35 am
What MSN is doing for their Communist Chinese masters isn’t all that different from what Yahoo does. Lost Budgie wrote of Yahoo’s helping to jail a dissident…
“Chinese Journalist Shi Tao dared to mention the 15th Anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre.
He will now be rotting in a Chinese prison for the next TEN YEARS because Yahoo! “enthusiastically” assisted Chinese Secret Police thugs to find the journalist’s identity”
“During an address to the Alibaba China Internet Summit, Yahoo’s Chief Jerry Yang admitted that his company assists the Chinese Secret Police, but excused the behaviour by saying, “I don’t like the outcome of what happened with this thing, we get a lot of these orders, but we have to comply with the law and that’s what we need to do.”
“Lost Budgie’s Aunt Reby reminds Mr. Yang that he sounds an awful lot like some other people in Germany and France who, in another time, made similar statements about having to comply with the law - no matter what the consequences.”
OF COURSE, we have to remember that the Communist Chinese are very resourceful…
From 101 Uses For An Executed Chinese…
January 5th, 2006 at 11:41 am
[...] Weiterhin hat er dem Dissidenten ein Gast-Weblog angeboten, damit er weiterbloggen kann. Nachlesen kann man das Ganze in Scoble’s Blog. [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Fait divers: MSN censure un blog chinois
Saluons les prouesses de la technologie capable d’identifier automatiquement les blogs coupables d’utiliser des mots tabous. La censure comme option d’une prestation commerciale. Apres une histoire similaire qui concernait Yahoo, c…
January 5th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
[...] Las reacciones a esta “medida” de Microsoft fueron bastante impresionantes; desde Robert Scoble, el blogger “Oficial” de Microsft, criticando a la empresa y ofreciendole a Zhao un espacio junto a el para que nadie lo censure… desafiante no?. Otro MSoftie mientras le decia a RS que “porque no esperas a escuchar las dos campanas antes de hablar mal de la empresa”. [...]
January 5th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
Say No to MSN Spaces
Say No To MSN SpacesOriginally uploaded byIsaac Mao.MSN Spaces变本加厉，在关键词过滤的行为上又作了“更邪恶”的事情，竟然把用户的Blog关闭，内容删除，还假以所谓的“遵循中国法律”为名。这种行为…
January 6th, 2006 at 9:58 am
[...] For those not familiar with Robert Scoble, he is Microsoft’s “official” blogger. His job, for the most part, is to blog on issues and items related to Microsoft and the industries they touch. Now, most people would probably assume that Robert sits around and plays cheerleader for the company all day; and while that sometimes appears to be the case, it is clear that Robert is given the freedom to write whatever he feels is accurate, regardless of whether it depicts his employer in a good or bad light. Case-in-point is this blog post by Scoble, where he effectively compares Microsoft to the Nazis. It’s nice to see that Microsoft has the courage to realisticly challenge themselves with someone like Scoble, and it’s nice to see that Scoble has the courage to stand up for what is right. [...]
January 6th, 2006 at 10:26 am
Rob, you say “it’s another thing” to censor an entire blogger’s work. I disagree - deleting certain words like Democracy and human rights is MORE pernicious than deleting an entire article. It presents an article censored and approved by the Chinese government as if it were true and independent. At least, if the work is deleted entirely, the empty space stands as a stinging indictment of censorship and an embarrasment to the authorities. It could be the catalyst for widespread resistance against such censorship, whereas tolerating the ongoing interference ensures it continues, unnoticed and unchallenged.
January 6th, 2006 at 11:57 am
I am a guy from China. Here is a wall that named Great Firewall.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
[...] The obligatory Scoble posts on the topic basically say I don’t like it, but we have employees there we can’t put at risk, so we play by the local rules. [...]
January 6th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
[...] Microsoft appears to be sensoring Chinese-language blogs at its MSN Spaces site, even when viewed outside of China, reports Rebecca MacKinnon. (HT: JunkYardBlog.) Microsoft employee and blogger Robert Scoble has more and a follow-up. (Related: Yahoo May Have Helped China Jail Journalist.) [...]
January 6th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
[...] Scoble is right on … [...]
January 7th, 2006 at 2:01 am
[...] How much grip does the China Blogosphere have? Well … if the coverage of MSN’s takedown of Chinese journalist Zhao Jing’s blog, which I first read about Danwei here but also reported on here, here, here, and here is any indication then it’s got enough juice to open up a can of whup a#$ before you can say 一, 二, 三. [...]
January 7th, 2006 at 8:28 am
I guess this is the future.
The most important task of any government that isn’t even pretending to be an open society is control of the information environment.
Yahoo and Microsoft are so desperate — for bona fide bottom line purposes — for their cut of the huge Chinese market that they play by China’s rules.
China hasn’t asked these tech giants to sell them tanks and machine guns to use to suppress free speech violently as they did in Tienamen Square.
No … they’re insisting that Yahoo and Microsoft help them with the electtronic information infrastructure — they’re asking Microsft and Yahoo for the digital tools to suppress free speech. And Microsoft and Yahoo are cooperating. Yahoo’s cooperation — supplying e-mail origin data to the police — has put a Chinese human rights activist in prison. Microsoft so far is just helping the Chinese government gag its people.
These are American companies, whatever that means. But the big questi